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And when you are among them and keep up the prayer for them
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let a party of them stand up with you, and let them take their arms; then when they have prostrated themselves let them go to your rear, and let another party who have not prayed come forward and pray with you, and let them take their precautions and their arms; (for) those who disbelieve desire that you may be careless of your arms and your luggage, so that they may then turn upon you with a sudden united attack, and there is no blame on you, if you are annoyed with rain or if you are sick, that you lay down your arms, and take your precautions; surely Allah has prepared a disgraceful chastisement for the unbelievers.
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loli wrote:
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Salamun Aalaikum brothers and sisters,
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loli wrote:
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I need some guidance here regarding 4:102, regarding praying(salat) for others
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loli wrote:
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M.Ahmed&Samira
4:102 And if you were in them, so you started for them the prayer, so a group from them should stand with you, and they should take their weapons/arms, so if they prostrated, so they be from behind you, and another group should come (that) they did not pray, so they pray (E) with you, and they should take their caution, and their weapons/arms; those who disbelieved, wished if you ignore/neglect your weapons/arms, and your belongings/effects/goods, so they lean on you one bend, and no offense/guilt (is) on you if mild harm was with you from rain or you were sick/diseased, that you lay your weapons/arms, and take your caution, that God prepared to the disbelievers a degrading/humiliating torture.
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loli wrote:
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Therefore the question is, is it posible for someone to perform the salat for somebody else,
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loli wrote:
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because as far as im aware, salat in the Quran is an personal connection to God.
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loli wrote:
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really hope that forum members could iron out the ambiguities.
salam
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SlaveofAllaah wrote:
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Since your mentioning about As salat and particular in verse 4:102, let us first read whats verse 4:101
During the time of warfare, it simple as armed is mentioned Prophets leads the Prayers, let me suppose in two lines and assuming only 2 rakah of Salah as it is during the time of Warfare.
The first line performs only 1 rakah out of the 2 rakah, bows and Prostrates behind the Prophet, once this is established Prophet still continues with the second rakah and the the second line comes and finished with its Prayers and the first line takes position in the rear by that time. But the Prophet complets his 2 rakah, and rest of believers complete there prayers but only wiht 1 rakah. But remember this exemption is only during if you satisfy Surah 4:101 and 102 and Surah 2:239 as mentioned above.
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loli wrote: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????¹ Select ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????º
fa 'aqamta - so perform
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Te prophet or the religious leader will call (for the prayer)
the Fa here means futurtristic event, i.e. : WILL CALL
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loli wrote:
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Thanx for your reply and your corrections, hope that you can correct me if im wrong as arabic grammer is not m strong point.
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loli wrote:
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However i notice this
i understand "Fa" as a conjugate with proximate sequence power to the antecedent event.
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loli wrote:
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your translation seems solve the issue that we cant pray for others.
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loli wrote:
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So the leader will only call the followers to their prayer, but will not perform the prayer for them,
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loli wrote:
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However how will this word(aqamta) syncronize with other ayats which is related to salat. example 2:177,7:170, 42:38
or the ones that is not related to salat example 5:12, 18:77
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Myr wrote:
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I am not that convinced about your shift in the meaning of "aqim"
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Myr wrote:
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and I am inclined to accept loli's understanding but I have to admit that my understanding is based on trying to explain the Quran from within the Quran while I strongly believe that each word in the Quran conveys a specific meaning even if many words have been translated having similar meanings (for me, there still must be a slight differnce in their meaning).
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Myr wrote:
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In verse 62:9, we can clearly see the expression used to call people to perform the salat so "aqim lahum" can not mean to "call",
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Myr wrote:
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furthermore verse 62:11 emphasizes "qa2'eman" (standing) from "aqim".
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Myr wrote:
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My understanding of "aqim lahum" would be that the prophet "stood for them", it's like me being in a hospital bed and you come to visit me so I will tell you do for me the "physical aspect of the salat" while I follow you from my bed praying with my mind so I would "imagine" prostrating at the time you prostrate and standing at the time you stand up and so on
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Myr wrote:
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....I am not sure if you see my point.
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Myr wrote:
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It is worth noting that it is in these verses that we can see the importance of the mind state and how it has to synchronize with the body movements/state, however most of people would do the opposite:-) the body follows but the mind does not:-).
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Myr wrote:
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Just sharing my understanding and God the All-Mighty knows best.
Peace. Myr.
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loli wrote:
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Salam Ahmed, Myr,
Thank you for your reply.
Ahmed..
I cant seem to find a dictionary to support your understanding. could you point me to a dictionary that says "aqamta" = call ?
the nearest i can get is "to set up", which i dont see it as the same as "call" for prayers.
Hope that you can clarify this.
salam
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loli wrote:
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Salam Ahmed,
Thanx for verifying this..
However..do you believe that the "iqamatu Al-salat" is done as the sunnis do it...the co-leader just recite some memorized wordings.
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loli wrote:
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If we translate "aqamatu" = "to set up",
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loli wrote:
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i would say that the one who calls is the one who coordinates which person to should perform Salat first and who to perform Salat after.
Any commments?
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It makes no difference to me really if the caller is the cooridinator or not, however coordination is always welcomed
Take care
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