| thegod wrote:
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# i can understand somebody making claims about certain words...but when somebody writes lies about quranic verses in the "proof" of those claims, then it becomes another matter!
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5:6 O you who believe, if you rise to attend the contact-method, then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you shall bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you could not find water, then you shall do ablution from clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands. God does not want to make any hardship over you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be appreciative
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5:7 And recall God's blessings over you and His covenant that He has bound you with, for which you have said: "We hear and obey," and be aware of God; for God knows what is inside the chests.
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| thegod wrote:
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# the claim that "Verses 5:6-7 also describe the "salat" and its components and end with "hearing and obeying"." is a plain lie and the poster is persisting with this lie about the quran, which he has included in his part of "proof"...
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| thegod wrote:
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5:6 deals only with the cleansing of the body when u "rise to attend the prayer"...it doesnt even begin to describe the start of salat!
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Exactly
[quote author=thegod]5:7 has nothing to do with ending the salat![/quote]
Of course despite it mentions those who hear an obey, but that is a description of the true believers, let's look at another example:
The messenger believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers; they all believe in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers; We make no difference between any of His messengers; and they say: We hear and obey, our Lord! Thy forgiveness (do we crave), and to Thee is the eventual course.
[The Quran ; 2:285]
آمَنَ الرَّسُولُ بِمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْهِ مِن رَّبِّهِ وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ كُلٌّ آمَنَ بِاللّهِ وَمَلآئِكَتِهِ وَكُتُبِهِ وَرُسُلِهِ لاَ نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّن رُّسُلِهِ وَقَالُواْ سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا غُفْرَانَكَ رَبَّنَا وَإِلَيْكَ الْمَصِيرُ (285)
-> See mate the description of the true believers:????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? they all believe in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers; We make no difference between any of His messengers; and they say: We hear and obey, our Lord!????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? no salat mentioned mate however we read the same words that the true believers say: WE HEAR AND OBEY, obey is obeying what Allah said in the Quran, He told us that He created the Angels and as you can see it is required to believe that they exit as 2:285 is telling us while the fact of the matter that many on FM deny their exitance yet they want to fool us and make us believe that they are true believers, hmm, they just make a joke of themselves, don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t you reckon bro?, how about the other things that 2:285 is telling us to do?, hmmm we required to believe that all prophets mentioned in the Quran and even others that are not mentioned that were sent by Allah, yet we find some on FM don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t buy that, saying how the hell they can prove it, hmmmm, see mate, they hear Allah in the Quran but they don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t obey
How about another one:
Some of those who are Jews change words from their context and say: We hear and disobey; hear thou as one who heareth, not and Listen to us! distorting with their tongues and slandering religion. If they had said: We hear and we obey: hear thou, and look at us it had been better for them, and more upright. But Allah hath cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not, save a few.
[The Quran ; 4:46]
مِّنَ الَّذِينَ هَادُواْ يُحَرِّفُونَ الْكَلِمَ عَن مَّوَاضِعِهِ وَيَقُولُونَ سَمِعْنَا وَعَصَيْنَا وَاسْمَعْ غَيْرَ مُسْمَعٍ وَرَاعِنَا لَيًّا بِأَلْسِنَتِهِمْ وَطَعْنًا فِي الدِّينِ وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ قَالُواْ سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا وَاسْمَعْ وَانظُرْنَا لَكَانَ خَيْرًا لَّهُمْ وَأَقْوَمَ وَلَكِن لَّعَنَهُمُ اللّهُ بِكُفْرِهِمْ فَلاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ إِلاَّ قَلِيلاً (46)
-> The verse above is about the Jews who manipulated Allah words, look how similar to those so called Muslims who manipulate Allah words, first the verse is telling us:????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? Some of those who are Jews change words from their context and say We hear and disobey????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, indeed that is what many on FM do and say, well they heard Allah and disobeyed as I explained earlier, and sure me and you know well that they also manipulate Allah words from its context, I guess it will be a good idea for both of us to compile a list of the Arabic words that its meaning have been altered severely on FM and post it somewhere, like Masjid Haram, Kabba, Salat, etc etc, next bit is very interesting man, it reminds me with Ayman from FM who is constantly slandering the true believers with the Al Masjid Al Haram alleged conspiracy :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? hear thou as one who heareth, not and Listen to us! distorting with their tongues and slandering religion.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? see man how the verse is almost talking about that person?, now if they say WE HEAR AN OBEY :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? If they had said: We hear and we obey: hear thou, and look at us it had been better for them????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, but sure they hear but not obey, because :[b]????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? But Allah hath cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not, save a few.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, how astonishing that man?
This one is very interesting mate and must be looked at::
47: And they say: We believe in Allah and in the messenger and we obey; then a party of them turn back after this, and these are not believers.
48: And when they are called to Allah and His Messenger that he may judge between them, lo! a party of them turn aside.
49: And if the truth be on their side, they come to him quickly, obedient.
50: Is there in their hearts a disease, or are they in doubt, or do they fear that Allah and His Messenger will act wrongfully towards them? Nay! they themselves are the unjust.
51: The response of the believers, when they are invited to Allah and His Messenger that he may judge between them, is only to say: We hear and we obey; and these it is that are the successful.
[The Quran ; 24:47-51]
وَيَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَبِالرَّسُولِ وَأَطَعْنَا ثُمَّ يَتَوَلَّى فَرِيقٌ مِّنْهُم مِّن بَعْدِ ذَلِكَ وَمَا أُوْلَئِكَ بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ (47)
وَإِذَا دُعُوا إِلَى اللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ لِيَحْكُمَ بَيْنَهُمْ إِذَا فَرِيقٌ مِّنْهُم مُّعْرِضُونَ (48)
وَإِن يَكُن لَّهُمُ الْحَقُّ يَأْتُوا إِلَيْهِ مُذْعِنِينَ (49)
أَفِي قُلُوبِهِم مَّرَضٌ أَمِ ارْتَابُوا أَمْ يَخَافُونَ أَن يَحِيفَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِمْ وَرَسُولُهُ بَلْ أُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الظَّالِمُونَ (50)
إِنَّمَا كَانَ قَوْلَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ إِذَا دُعُوا إِلَى اللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ لِيَحْكُمَ بَيْنَهُمْ أَن يَقُولُوا سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا وَأُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الْمُفْلِحُونَ (51)
-> 47, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????And they say: We believe in Allah and in the messenger and we obey;????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? and that is exactly what all so called Muslims say, however some of then refuse to obey:????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? then a party of them turn back after this, and these are not believers.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT WE SEE on Free Minds
-> 48, The call is for ALLAH AND HIS MESSNEGER, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????And when they are called to Allah and His Messenger that he may judge between them,????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, see how they are called to the messenger judgment of any issue like Salat for example you know what they so, here it is :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????lo! a party of them turn aside.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
-> 49, If they are truly believers then they should have come quick in obedient when they are called for ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGR: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????And if the truth be on their side, they come to him quickly, obedient.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, me and you know well that they don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t rather argue and create some funny and non sensible excuses to dodge the prophet history that can be qualified by the Quran like Al Masjid Al Haram issue for example , I found it bizarre that many of their excuses are severe altering to the Arabic language, they are addicted to the flawed root method some how, the method that suppose to make a ladder is peace, sort of they invented a new Arabic language, what is funny though man that most of them dont even speak Arabic
-> 50, They are living their Barbie world of illusions indeed, Allah describes them as sick hearted: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Is there in their hearts a disease, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????? they even might be doubting that the Quran is from Allah :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????or are they in doubt,????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? or even :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????or do they fear that Allah and His Messenger will act wrongfully towards them?????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, see how the messenger is mentioned with Allah?, i.e. many tings that the prophet said MUST BE OBEYED and we can only do that by qualifying what we heard about him using the Quran, don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t you think so mate?, anyway it is them who are unjust to them, not the sunni or the shia or whoever they try to blame:????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????Nay! they themselves are the unjust.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
-> 51, Now here is the true believers who hear and obey :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????The response of the believers, when they are invited to Allah and His Messenger that he may judge between them, is only to say: We hear and we obey;, SEE HOW IT SAY when they are invited to Allah and His Messenger that he may judge between them, that must mean that there are things not in the Quran that is said by the prophet and MUST BE OBEYED, and only those who will do that will prosper: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????and these it is that are the successful????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
See how they are living their Barbie world of illusions, sound like Satan has done them big time man
[quote author=thegod]...is there any rule dealing with such lies about quran?
[/quote]
do you mean Allah rule or FM rule?
hmmm, if you mean an FM rule, then forget it bro, this is what FM is all about, it is simply about saying about Allah what you don't know and many on Free Minds are very professional in doing so
Now if you mean Allah rules then Allah is telling us that they are liars who submitted to Satan and they will be held accountable for their crimes
Salam mate
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