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Bring it on - Is the Quran a numerically structured book?
- Mon 05 Feb, 2007 9:56 am
Post subject: Is the Quran a numerically structured book?
Hello all

One of the allegatiosn R K claimed is this:

The Quran said about itself that it is a ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????Kitab Marqum????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, I.e. ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????numerically structured Book????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, it looks like this in Arabic, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? كِتَابٌ مَّرْقُومٌ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, obvioulsy he is referring to his man made non sense "code 19", the matter of the fact however that this is a lie, the Quran never claimed that it is a numerically structured book, the Quran used the definition ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Kitab Marqum????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? twice and in each one the Quran was talking about totally different book and not the Quran, let????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s have a look:

7- Nay! most surely the record of the wicked is in the Sijjin.

8- And what will make you know what Sijjin is?

9- It is a MARQUM book.
[The Quran ; 83:7-9]

كَلَّا إِنَّ كِتَابَ الفُجَّارِ لَفِي سِجِّينٍ (7)
وَمَا أَدْرَاكَ مَا سِجِّينٌ (8)
كِتَابٌ مَّرْقُومٌ (9)

-> Very clear that 83:6 is telling about something that is called Sijjin, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? Nay! most surely the record of the wicked is in the Sijjin.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, we can see that the deeds of the bad people will be recorded in a book that is called Sijjin, Allah then is telling us that we won????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t know what Sijjin is, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? And what will make you know what the Sijjin is?????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, then Allah is telling us that Sijjin (the book which records the deeds of the bad people) is a numbered book, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? It is a NUMBERED book.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, see 83:9 IS NOT TALKING ABOUT THE QUARN

Let????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s have a look at the second instance of using the words ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Numbered Book????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? and we will see that it is the opposite to the above:

18- Nay! Most surely the record of the righteous shall be in the Iliyin.

19- And what will make you know what Iliyin is?

20- It is a MARQUM book.
[The Quran ; 83:18-20]

كَلَّا إِنَّ كِتَابَ الْأَبْرَارِ لَفِي عِلِّيِّينَ (18)
وَمَا أَدْرَاكَ مَا عِلِّيُّونَ (19)
كِتَابٌ مَّرْقُومٌ (20)

-> Very clear that 83:18 is telling about something that is called Iliyin, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? Nay! Most surely the record of the righteous shall be in the Iliyin.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, we can see that the deeds of the good people will be recorded in a book that is called Iliyin , Allah then is telling us that we won????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t know what Iliyin is, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? And what will make you know what the highest Iliyin is?????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, then Allah is telling us that Iliyin (the book which records the deeds of the good people) is a numbered book, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? It is a numerical book.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, see 83:20 IS NOT TALKING ABOUT THE QUARN


This proves that R K lied to deceive others

I rest my case regarding this issue (A numerically structured book) for life

Salam
- Fri 09 Feb, 2007 12:00 am
Post subject:
# not being particulary interested in specific claims...i do think there is some substance in the talks about numbers being involved! i am sure u have come across some of the claims about counts of certain words and so on and so forth...and if the stats are right, i do feel the claims are definitely interesting! (-:
- Fri 09 Feb, 2007 10:06 pm
Post subject:
salam bros,

Quote:
# not being particulary interested in specific claims...i do think there is some substance in the talks about numbers being involved! i am sure u have come across some of the claims about counts of certain words and so on and so forth...and if the stats are right, i do feel the claims are definitely interesting! (-:


If you mean by counts, number of times any particular word being used, yes those figures are interesting. But 19ers and their claims are out of this world.
- Fri 09 Feb, 2007 11:53 pm
Post subject:
The wrote:
# not being particulary interested in specific claims...i do think there is some substance in the talks about numbers being involved! i am sure u have come across some of the claims about counts of certain words and so on and so forth...and if the stats are right, i do feel the claims are definitely interesting! (-:


of course i agree with those other math signs, very impressing indeed, but not R K crap please

Take care
- Sun 11 Feb, 2007 6:39 am
Post subject:
Quote:
life wrote:
If you mean by counts, number of times any particular word being used, yes those figures are interesting. But 19ers and their claims are out of this world.



Quote:
ahmedbahgat wrote:
of course i agree with those other math signs, very impressing indeed, but not R K crap please


# yups bros....i dont necessarily endorse any specific claims!

interesting claim by a traditionalist:
http://islam.com/reply.asp?id=881151&ct=1&mn=881151

: grin :

# salam and take care bros! (-:
- Sun 11 Feb, 2007 7:30 am
Post subject:
Salam The,

Quote:
interesting claim by a traditionalist:
http://islam.com/reply.asp?id=881151&ct=1&mn=881151
: grin :


I just read the comment on this link. But I cant understand your point bro, can you please elaborate. Thank you!
- Sun 11 Feb, 2007 8:48 pm
Post subject:
Quote:
life wrote:
I just read the comment on this link. But I cant understand your point bro, can you please elaborate. Thank you!


# sure....i ll quote from the link:

Quote:
There are nineteen times that obedience of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is stated in the Quran by Allah Subhanu wa ta’ala


# ofcourse i havent verified the claim....but that number is interesting:

...nineteen! :-S

Quote:
life wrote:
Thank you!


# anytime brother! (-:
- Mon 12 Feb, 2007 10:49 am
Post subject:
Salam The,

Brother are you 19 years old or are you in love with figure 19 Smile
Anyway in below verses the common figure is 7, seven heavens, firmaments. If you find this seven amazing and more to ponder about, please create a new thread to start with.

2:29 هُوَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ لَكُم مَّا فِي الأَرْضِ جَمِيعاً ثُمَّ اسْتَوَى إِلَى السَّمَاء فَسَوَّاهُنَّ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ وَهُوَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ
It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Moreover His design comprehended the heavens, for He gave order and perfection to the seven firmaments; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge.

67:3 الَّذِي خَلَقَ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ طِبَاقًا مَّا تَرَى فِي خَلْقِ الرَّحْمَنِ مِن تَفَاوُتٍ فَارْجِعِ الْبَصَرَ هَلْ تَرَى مِن فُطُورٍ
He Who created the seven heavens one above another: No want of proportion wilt thou see in the Creation of (Allah) Most Gracious. So turn thy vision again: seest thou any flaw?

71:15 أَلَمْ تَرَوْا كَيْفَ خَلَقَ اللَّهُ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ طِبَاقًا
See ye not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another.

78:12 وَبَنَيْنَا فَوْقَكُمْ سَبْعًا شِدَادًا
And (have We not) built over you the seven firmaments.
- Mon 12 Feb, 2007 6:57 pm
Post subject: Re:
Quote:
life wrote:
Brother are you 19 years old or are you in love with figure 19


# i am in love with all kinds of figures! : love :

Quote:
Anyway in below verses the common figure is 7, seven heavens, firmaments. If you find this seven amazing and more to ponder about, please create a new thread to start with.

2:29 هُوَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ لَكُم مَّا فِي الأَرْضِ جَمِيعاً ثُمَّ اسْتَوَى إِلَى السَّمَاء فَسَوَّاهُنَّ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ وَهُوَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ
It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Moreover His design comprehended the heavens, for He gave order and perfection to the seven firmaments; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge.

...

78:12 وَبَنَيْنَا فَوْقَكُمْ سَبْعًا شِدَادًا
And (have We not) built over you the seven firmaments.


# can u be a bit more clear about what u r trying to say, bro? (-:

# if 19 really is the number of times that obedience to the prophet has been commanded then i do find it interesting...

...u aint harboring sum kinda grudge against "19", bro, are u? (-:

# salam life! (-:
- Mon 12 Feb, 2007 8:29 pm
Post subject:
Salam The,

Quote:
# can u be a bit more clear about what u r trying to say, bro? (-:


In this thread we are talking to the point about code 19 theory. You said, "i dont necessarily endorse any specific claims!" and there after you quoted "There are nineteen times that obedience of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is stated in the Quran by Allah Subhanu wa ta????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢ala". Now what you mentioned, if isnt in support of 19-coders then Seven what I quoted should be more interesting to ponder on and might need help from an astronomer.

Quote:
# if 19 really is the number of times that obedience to the prophet has been commanded then i do find it interesting...

Its mentioned 19 times so? Sorry bro I dont find it interesting or supportive to 19-coders.

Quote:
...u aint harboring sum kinda grudge against "19", bro, are u? (-:

LOL! you got me bro, actually I hated 19 when I was in my teens, with nineTEEN your teenage ends Wink
- Mon 12 Feb, 2007 9:26 pm
Post subject:
Quote:
life wrote:
In this thread we are talking to the point about code 19 theory.


# yes...apparently related to khalifa! (-:

Quote:
You said, "i dont necessarily endorse any specific claims!"


# right...including khalifa's! (-:

Quote:
and there after you quoted "There are nineteen times that obedience of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is stated in the Quran by Allah Subhanu wa ta’ala".


# right....i quoted a traditionalist sayng that! (-:

Quote:
Now what you mentioned, if isnt in support of 19-coders


# yes...it isnt in support of any coders or any specific code theory! (-:

Quote:
then Seven what I quoted should be more interesting to ponder on


# why? (-:

Quote:
and might need help from an astronomer.


# if the quran says there are seven heavens....(for us) isnt it enough?

...or do u mean there might be some translation issues? sorry bro....u ve lost me there! )-:

Quote:
Its mentioned 19 times so?


# that's what the guy claimed! (-:

Quote:
Sorry bro


# tiz okay buddy! (-:

Quote:
I dont find it interesting


# cool! (-:

Quote:
or supportive to 19-coders.


# neither do i! (-:

Quote:
LOL! you got me bro, actually I hated 19 when I was in my teens, with nineTEEN your teenage ends


# lolz...why bro...there is life after teens! : wink :

## salam life! (-:
- Mon 12 Feb, 2007 9:56 pm
Post subject:
Hello dear,

Quote:
then Seven what I quoted should be more interesting to ponder on

# why? (-:

Because this is something we dontknow/hidden and per nature, v try to find out everything. As for tht 19 times statement, I find it simple.

Quote:
# if the quran says there are seven heavens....(for us) isnt it enough?

Its enough to believe but not enough to know. Like I was born in a beliving family so i believed in Allah. But then now i KNOW there is Allah.

Quote:
lolz...why bro...there is life after teens! : wink :


Its like we all miss our teeny teeny life, when everything seems in our control. Isnt it bro
- Tue 13 Feb, 2007 1:14 am
Post subject:
Quote:
life wrote:
Because this is something we dontknow/hidden and per nature, v try to find out everything. As for tht 19 times statement, I find it simple.


# ahan....cool! (-:

Quote:
Its enough to believe but not enough to know. Like I was born in a beliving family so i believed in Allah. But then now i KNOW there is Allah.


# i like that attitude bro! (-:

Quote:
Its like we all miss our teeny teeny life, when everything seems in our control. Isnt it bro


# hmmm...it's surprising how the most casual of questions can leave a person with apparently no definite answer....i really dont know how to answer ur "isnt it", buddy! ))-:

# take care! (-:
- Thu 15 Mar, 2007 1:44 am
Post subject: Re:
God site. Thanks!
- Thu 15 Mar, 2007 11:35 pm
Post subject: Re:
Mike Stranger wrote:
God site. Thanks!


Cheers and welcome to FI

Take care
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