Popeye wrote:
|
God sent his messengers and he made this world a test for hereafter.
Is there any verse in the Quran that actually says this?
|
Popeye wrote:
|
Hello and thank you, Ahmed, I had been looking for that for ages. My dilemma is this, do you think it possible or probable that a Merciful and Forgiving God creates us to live for barely a second and then spends the rest of Eternity (long long time) burning our flesh?
|
Popeye wrote:
|
Hello and thank you, Ahmed, I had been looking for that for ages.
|
Popeye wrote:
|
My dilemma is this, do you think it possible or probable that a Merciful and Forgiving God creates us to live for barely a second and then spends the rest of Eternity (long long time) burning our flesh?
|
Code:
|
067.001
SHAKIR: Blessed is He in Whose hand is the kingdom, and He has power over all things,
|
Code:
|
067.002
SHAKIR: Who created death and life that He may try you-- which of you is best in deeds; and He is the Mighty, the Forgiving,
|
Code:
|
067.003
SHAKIR: Who created the seven heavens one above another; you see no incongruity in the creation of the Beneficent Allah; then look again, can you see any disorder?
|
Code:
|
067.004
SHAKIR: Then turn back the eye again and again; your look shall '~ come back to you confused while it is fatigued.
|
Code:
|
067.005
SHAKIR: And certainly We have adorned this lower heaven with lamps and We have made these missiles for the Shaitans, and We have prepared for them the chastisement of burning.
|
Code:
|
067.006
SHAKIR: And for those who disbelieve in their Lord is the punishment of hell, and evil is the resort.
|
Code:
|
067.007
SHAKIR: When they shall be cast therein, they shall hear a loud moaning of it as it heaves,
|
Code:
|
067.008
SHAKIR: Almost bursting for fury. Whenever a group is cast into it, its keeper shall ask them: Did there not come to you a warner?
|
AhmedBahgat wrote:
|
Fistly you only listed one possibility out of 5 possibilities, secondly, even the one you listed is not entirely accurate, let me explain:
There are 5 possibilities (if Allah exits)
1) He does not create us at all
2) He creates us then put all of us in hell
3) He creates us then put all of us in heaven
4) He creates us then leave us without Judgment
5) He creates us then based on Judgment, some will go to hell and others will go to heaven
Logically speaking only option 5 is the most merciful 1.
|
Popeye wrote:
|
Hello again, I read your reasoning with interest and I will concentrate if you don't mind on your main point.
|
Popeye wrote:
|
In my opinion there is a flaw in your argument because you are not taking into account God's Omnipotence and Omniscience.
|
Popeye wrote:
|
The existence of an Omniscient God, whose foreknowledge of future events is necessarily correct,
|
Popeye wrote:
|
completely precludes human free will.
|
Popeye wrote:
|
If God knows in advance what is going to happen next then we have no choice but to do what He knows otherwise we would make His knowledge
imperfect.
|
Popeye wrote:
|
Therefore He knows I'm going to have a banana for breakfast tomorrow. Before the event, he knows what I will chose. Because he's Omniscient.
|
Popeye wrote:
|
So, tomorrow morning, rolls around. I get out of bed and go for breakfast. I seemingly have a free choice as to what to have for breakfast. I could choose a bacon butty, or a bowl of porridge, or just a cup of coffee, or a banana.
|
Popeye wrote:
|
The point being, if I choose anything except the banana, regardless of why I choose then God was wrong.
|
Popeye wrote:
|
So in order to preserve the Omniscience, I only have a "choice" of one thing.
|
Popeye wrote:
|
Suppose Allaah came up to you, gave you an apple, and knew that you would eat it. Are you able to choose not to eat the apple?
|
Popeye wrote:
|
Either I only have a choice from an option set of size one (and therefore could not chose anything else, i.e. no free will), or I can chose something else, thus proving God's omniscience false.
|
Popeye wrote:
|
So God creates Evil and creates us equipped with the pre-destiny of committing sins and we are then tortured for an Eternity??
|
Popeye wrote:
|
Rather than Merciful, it sounds like torture for torture sake to me.
Salam.
|
Well tough luck to you and me if we reject His calls, He is a God not a super human, on the other hand me and you can avoid that torture with ease
Salam
- Wed 30 May, 2007 9:56 pm
Post subject: Re:
Let this guy keep playing around with free will and certainty. Good for him he will get to know his games of free will after death, so no problem certain is his death atleast he knows that but uncertain is his meeting with Allaah.
But both death and meeting with Allaah will be certain after popeye's death and unfortunately then he wont have spinach to eat but he will be the fuel for hell.
well i will help you out with destiny stuff AB i found it in one website, it was hard for me understand though but the author mentioned someting good.
I will get it.
- Wed 30 May, 2007 10:20 pm
Post subject:
Thanks bro SOA
please do bring it in
Salam
- Thu 31 May, 2007 12:27 am
Post subject: Re:
http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref=96978&ln=eng&txt=destiny
One must believe in two things:
1 ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? That Allaah, may He be exalted, is the Creator of all things, and nothing happens in the universe except by His will. He knows what is to come and He decreed all of that and wrote it in a Book fifty thousand years before He created the heavens and the earth, as is stated in a saheeh report from our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). He is Just and does not wrong anyone in the slightest, because He is independent of His creation and has no need of them. He is Kind and Gracious to them constantly, so how could He wrong them?
This principle is indicated by a great deal of evidence in the Qur????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢aan and Sunnah, such as the verses in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Verily, We have created all things with Qadar (Divine Preordainments of all things before their creation as written in the Book of Decrees ___ Al‑Lawh Al‑Mahfooz)????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
[al-Qamar 54:49]
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????No calamity befalls on the earth or in yourselves but it is inscribed in the Book of Decrees (Al‑Lawh Al‑Mahfooz) before We bring it into existence. Verily, that is easy for Allaah????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
[al-Hadeed 57:22].
And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Allaah decided the decrees of creation fifty thousand years before He created the heavens and the earth. He said: And His Throne is above the water.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? Narrated by Muslim (2653).
2 ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? Man has free will and choice by means of which he does some things and refrains from others, and he believes or disbelieves, and he obeys or disobeys, for which he will be brought to account and rewarded or punished, although Allaah knows what he will do, what he will choose and what his ultimate destiny will be. But Allaah does not compel him to do evil, or to choose kufr, rather He clearly shows him the path and He has sent Messengers and revealed Books, and shown him the right way. Whoever goes astray does so to his own loss,.
Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????And say: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????The truth is from your Lord.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢ Then whosoever wills, let him believe; and whosoever wills, let him disbelieve????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
[al-Kahf 18:29]
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Verily, We showed him the way, whether he be grateful or ungrateful????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
[al-Insaan 76:3]
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????So whosoever does good equal to the weight of an atom (or a small ant) shall see it.
8. And whosoever does evil equal to the weight of an atom (or a small ant) shall see it????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
[al-Zalzalah 99:7,8]
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????And it will be cried out to them: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????This is the Paradise which you have inherited for what you used to do????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
[al-A????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢raaf 7:43]
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????so taste you the abiding torment for what you used to do????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
[al-Sajdah 32:14]
Allaah tells us that man believes and does righteous deeds by his own choice and free will, then he enters Paradise, or he disbelieves and does evil deeds by his own choice and free will, then he enters Hell.
Every person knows in his own heart and by looking at those around him, that our deeds ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? good and evil, obedient and sinful ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? are done by our own choice, and we do not feel that there is any force compelling us to do them. You can curse, swear, lie and backbite, just as you can praise Allaah, glorify Him, pray for forgiveness, speak the truth and give sincere advice. You can walk to places of idle entertainment, falsehood and evil, just as you can walk to the mosques or places of goodness and obedience. A man can strike with his hand, steal, speak falsehood and betray, or he can help the needy, do good and do favours with his hands. Everyone does some of these deeds and he does not feel that he is compelled or forced, rather he does them by his own free will and then he will be called to account for them; if they were good, then the consequences will be good, and if they were bad then the consequences will be bad.
What Allaah has decreed is something that man cannot know and he cannot base his deeds on it or use it as an excuse. It is also not valid for him to object to his Lord by questioning why He has caused someone to be among the doomed or the blessed. Allaah has not wronged the one who is doomed, rather He gave him time and ability and freedom of choice, and He sent to him Messengers and revealed Books to them, and He reminded him and warned him with all kinds of reminders, such as calamities and tests, so that he would repent to Him and turn to Him. If he chose the path of misguidance, and followed the way of criminals, he only harmed himself, and he is the one who has caused his own doom, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Indeed he succeeds who purifies his ownself (i.e. obeys and performs all that Allaah ordered, by following the true Faith of Islamic Monotheism and by doing righteous good deeds).
10. And indeed he fails who corrupts his ownself (i.e. disobeys what Allaah has ordered by rejecting the true Faith of Islamic Monotheism or by following polytheism, or by doing every kind of evil wicked deeds)????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
[al-Shams 91:9, 10]
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Allaah wronged them not, but they wronged themselves????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
[Aal ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Imraan 3:117]
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Has not the story reached them of those before them? ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? The people of Nooh (Noah), ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Aad, and Thamood, the people of Ibraaheem (Abraham), the dwellers of Madyan (Midian) and the cities overthrown [i.e. the people to whom Loot (Lot) preached]; to them came their Messengers with clear proofs. So it was not Allaah Who wronged them, but they used to wrong themselves????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
[al-Tawbah 9:70]
To sum up: the belief that Allaah is the Creator Who has decreed all things and has distinguished those who are blessed from those who are doomed, does not mean that Allaah forces His slaves to obey or disobey. Rather He has given them the ability to choose and free will, which is what they act upon, and for which they will be brought to account. Your Lord does not wrong His slaves.
All times are GMT + 10 Hours
Powered by phpBB 2.0 .0.17 © 2001
phpBB
Group