www.free-islam.com

Class Discussion - 3:135

- Sat 10 Nov, 2007 3:53 pm
Post subject: 3:135

I want to discuss with you a verse from the Quran which I didn't understand and I was confused when I read Ibn Kathir's explanation for it:

أَذْنَبْتُ ذَنْبًا فَاغْفِرْهُ، فَقَالَ اللهُ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ: عَبْدِي عَمِل ذَنْبًا فَعَلِمَ أَنَّ لَهُ رَبًّا يَغْفِرُ الذَّنْبَ وَيَأْخُذُ بِهِ، قَدْ غَفَرْتُ لِعَبْدِي، ثُمَّ عَمِلَ ذَنْبًا آخَرَ فَقَالَ: رَبِّ إِنِّي عَمِلْتُ ذَنْبًا فَاغْفِرْهُ، فَقَالَ تَبَارَكَ وَتَعَالى: عَلِمَ عَبْدِي أَنَّ لَهُ ربًّا يَغْفِرُ الذَّنْبَ وَيَأْخُذُ بِهِ،قَدْ غَفَرْتُ لِعَبْدِي، ثُمَّ عَمِلَ ذَنْبًا آخَرَ فَقَالَ: رَبِّ إِنِّي عَمِلْتُ ذَنْبًا فَاغْفِرْهُ لِي، فَقَالَ اللهُ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ: عَلِمَ عَبْدِي أَنَّ لَهُ ربًّا يَغْفِرُ الذَّنْبَ وَيَأْخُذُ بِهِ، قَدْ غَفَرْتُ لِعَبْدِي، ثُمَّ عَمِلَ ذَنْبًا آخَرَ فَقَالَ: رَبِّ إِنِّي عَمِلْتُ ذَنْبًا فَاغْفِرْهُ لِي، فَقَالَ اللهُ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ: عَلِمَ عَبْدِي أَنَّ لَهُ ربًّا يَغْفِرُ الذَّنْبَ وَيَأْخُذُ بِهِ، أُشْهِدُكُمْ أَنِّي قَدْ غَفَرْتُ لِعَبْدِي فَلْيَعْمَلْ مَا شَاءÃ???????Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?Â»

(A man once committed an error and said, `O Lord! I committed an error, so forgive me.' Allah said, `My servant committed an error and knew that he has a Lord Who forgives or punishes for the error. I have forgiven My servant.' The man committed another error and said, `O Lord! I committed an error, so forgive me.' Allah said, `My servant knew that he has a Lord Who forgives or punishes for the sin. I have forgiven My servant.' The man committed another error and said, `O Lord! I committed an error, so forgive me.' Allah said, `My servant knew that he has a Lord Who forgives or punishes for the error. I have forgiven my servant.' He then committed another error and said, `O Lord! I committed an error, so forgive me.' Allah said, `My servant knew that he has a Lord Who forgives or punishes for the error. Bear witness that I have forgiven My servant, so let him do whatever he likes.') A similar narration was collected in the Sahih.

And here is the original verse:

003.135
YUSUFALI: And those who, having done something to be ashamed of, or wronged their own souls, earnestly bring Allah to mind, and ask for forgiveness for their sins,- and who can forgive sins except Allah?- and are never obstinate in persisting knowingly in (the wrong) they have done.
PICKTHAL: And those who, when they do an evil thing or wrong themselves, remember Allah and implore forgiveness for their sins - Who forgiveth sins save Allah only? - and will not knowingly repeat (the wrong) they did.
SHAKIR: And those who when they commit an indecency or do injustice to their souls remember Allah and ask forgiveness for their faults-- and who forgives the faults but Allah, and (who) do not knowingly persist in what they have done.

Bro, regarding this ayah, I spoke to my friend about it and he interpreted it in a shocking way. He said that he can do whatever he wants: smoke, fornicate, gamble, drink, go to nightclubs and all these other filthy habits and when he becomes older, and when he turns 40 or 50, he would repent to Allah and Allah will see nothing to it. If this interpretation is true, then does this explain why we have so many non-practicing Muslims all over the world?

Also, regarding Paradise, I heard that there are numerous different levels and I think I read somewhere in the Quran that the better you are in character and deeds, the greater reward you will recieve.

Is this true bro?

Thank you for your time

Salam

Mod-Edit: Just edited the name as per request.

- Sat 10 Nov, 2007 7:56 pm
Post subject:

Salam brother

Thanks mate for asking this important question, I have read it quickly as I'm translating verses 3-141-160 when I finish I will have a break then see if I can reply tonight, if not, it will be tomorrow morning inshalllah

can you please change the thread title to something else that does not carry my name?, a title that may describe your question in a few words will be most suited please

Take care

- Sat 10 Nov, 2007 11:32 pm
Post subject:

Salam,

This thread is being moved to 'class discussion' and renamed to 3-141-160 for convenience.

- Sat 10 Nov, 2007 11:46 pm
Post subject:

Dear brother IW1,

While you are waiting for Ahmed's reply, I have some comments:

فَلْيَعْمَلْ مَا شَاءÃ???????Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?Â»

which has been translated into English wrongly in that quote referred to Ibn Kathir and quoted by your friend as if it is the Licence to ommit whatever he wants.

فَلْيَعْمَلْ مَا شَاءÃ???????Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?Â» should have been translated as for what he has done Please note that it not written, "Fal-yaf-al maa yashaa."

When we get this sort of confusing situation, it becomes necessary to refer to Qur'aan for checking the quote or hadith in the light or the shade of Qur'aan. Now, if you look at the verses of Qur'aan, it is quite clear that Allah is the Most Forgiving. In another verse, Allah says in Qur'aan, "Innallaha la-afu'an ghafoor.", which means Allah forgives a lot but there is a limit and a condition to it and I have emboldened it in the translation o0f verses, below for an easy reference:

003.135
YUSUFALI: And those who, having done something to be ashamed of, or wronged their own souls, earnestly bring Allah to mind, and ask for forgiveness for their sins,- and who can forgive sins except Allah?- and are never obstinate in persisting knowingly in (the wrong) they have done.

PICKTHAL: And those who, when they do an evil thing or wrong themselves, remember Allah and implore forgiveness for their sins - Who forgiveth sins save Allah only? - and will not knowingly repeat (the wrong) they did.

SHAKIR: And those who when they commit an indecency or do injustice to their souls remember Allah and ask forgiveness for their faults-- and who forgives the faults but Allah, and (who) do not knowingly persist in what they have done.

So, repentance has to be true and sincere. Otherwise, it will be like a free licence, just like the Christians have, when they load on all the sins on Jesus and keep plying upon him and go scot-free. LOL!

Just my two cents.

BMZ

- Sun 11 Nov, 2007 2:05 am
Post subject:

BMZ wrote:

Thanks for the excellent response bro. I'm also looking forward to reading Ahmed's translation of the Quran and for his response also.

So regarding this verse, does it explicitely mean that Allah will only forgive you from doing your sins if you were ignorantly committed it. The Ibn Kathir tafsir was very confusing, because it appeared as if Islam resembled Christianity; that we can do anything we want with the intention of repenting later on in life. I think this is the mindset of many Muslims today. They commit fornication and drink but they plan on repenting and going on the Hajj later on in life. I am also specifically speaking of the Muslims who DO grow old and not those who end up dying when they are 20.

I think this hypocrisy and mindset is disgusting, They feel as if they are able to CHEAT Allah and trick Allah, They feel that they can enjoy their wordly life while the religious Muslims miss out on a lot of "fun" and they can end up repenting and getting the same reward as those who prayed, fasted and acted righteous their entire lives.

Do the non-practicing Muslims who end up planning to repent when they're old get the same reward as the Muslims who did good deeds their entire life? Ibn Kathir's commentary confused me alot. And many of those disobedient Muslims actually do repent sincerely when they are 50 or 40 and they stopped having all the "fun" they had in their youth, the state of those Muslim's confuse me