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Post subject: Just for knowledge: I wrote this on a Jewish Site
RE: According to the Qur'an Jews were writing books, which were not from God (Titled by the polemic Christian)
Hi everyone,
Now that George has opened a can of worms, I need to address his post, which has misreporting. Whether those were Jews or Christians living in Arabia, does not matter as they had the same scriptures in some form. The post may get longer, so please excuse me for that.
Qur'aan addresses both the Jews and the Christians as Ahlal-Kitaab, which means People of the Book. The Book here does not mean a well-bound book but Scriptures given by God to Prophets. Qur'aan mainly talks about the Torah given to Moses and the Injeel given to Jesus. It also says that Scriptures were revealed to other Prophets even before Jesus and Muhammad.
Now neither the entire Jewish Tanakh was given to Moses nor the entire New Testament was given to Jesus at all. The Jews did not have just the Torah scrolls or tablets but they also had a lot of Oral Torah.
The writings that form the Jewish Tankah, were collected in the 5th or 6th Century BCE and the Jewish Canon was established in the 3rd Century BC. There is no original of what Moses had personally written.
Qur'aan accuses both the Jews and the Christians of writing in things or adding in, which were not approved by God. There were also scribal errors and misreports.
I do not wish to go into describing a lot but I will point out one, which tells the Jews not to charge interest to their own but allowed them to charge interest to a foreigner.
Definitely, such instruction could not have come from God.
Another of no great consequence but worth mentioning is why would Abraham introduce Sarah as sister in Genesis 12, when that did not work and God had to save her.
Genesis 18 tells us she was very old and in Genesis 20, we are told the same story that Abraham told Abimelech that Sarah, an old lady, was his sister and Sarah had also said that he was her brother. Same story and God had to intervene again to save her. The lie did not work anyway.
As for Christians, Qur'aan accuses them of writing books and presenting to people that these are from God, when none of them is from God at all.
This verse 2:113 is addressed jointly to the Jews, the Christians and the Meccan pagans:
Quote:2:113 The Jews say that the Christians have nothing (of the Truth) and the Christians say that the Jews have nothing of it, though both read the Scripture. And those who have no knowledge of the Scripture also make similar claims. Allah will surely give His judgement on the Day of Resurrection in all the matters in which they differ.
These are addressed to the Christians and they are also called People of the Book:
Quote:2:116They say "Allah has taken a son." Allah is above such things. As a matter of fact, whatever is in the heavens and on the earth belongs to Him and all are obedient to Him.
Quote:3:78 And there is a party among them who twist their tongues while reciting the Book to make you think that it is part of the Book when in fact it is not. They say: 'It is from Allah', when in fact it is not from Allah. They falsely fix a lie upon Allah, and do so wittingly.
Quote: 4:171 People of the Book! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, and attribute to Allah nothing except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of Allah, and His command that He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him (which led to Mary's conception). So believe in Allah and in His Messengers, and do not say: (Allah is a) trinity. Give up this assertion; it would be better for you. Allah is indeed just one God. Far be it from His glory that He should have a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth. Allah is sufficient for a guardian.
Quote:5:15 People of the Book! Now Our Messenger has come to you: he makes clear to you a good many things of the Book which you conceal, and also passes over many things. There has now come to you a light from Allah, and a clear Book.
God has been angry with people many times and showed His anger and displeasure by cursing and sending woes through prophets and peaceful and loving Jesus also did that and so did God through Qur'aan.
How can Qur'aan be wrong, when it accuses Christians of writing scriptures and telling people that they are from God, when they are not. The Old Testament is a copy of the Jewish Tanakh but it has already been forged, where it was necessary to show Jesus and also to use the verses of the Jewish Tanakh to show that Jesus was God of God. This kind of corruption or forgery is deplored by Qur'aan.
I will present some glaring examples of forgeries:
Quote:Pslam 2:10-12 "Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him."
There is no Kiss the Son in the Jewish Scriptures.
I had often wondered how could God say this about Jesus in Hebrews 1,
"God, your throne will last forever and ever."
And I found that Paul wrote a few words and added on the verses from the Jewish Tanakh or its poor copy OT and compiled Hebrews 1. This is a clear example of men who wrote a scripture themselves and passed it off as coming from God.
I am appending below Hebrews 1 for an easy reference and I have emboldened the parts which Paul fitted in by copying and pasting and the rest is what he wrote himself
Hebrews 1
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets many times and in many different ways.2 But now in these last days God has spoken to us through his Son. God has chosen his Son to own all things, and through him he made the world.3 The Son reflects the glory of God and shows exactly what God is like. He holds everything together with his powerful word. When the Son made people clean from their sins, he sat down at the right side of God, the Great One in heaven.4 The Son became much greater than the angels, and God gave him a name that is much greater than theirs.
5 This is because God never said to any of the angels,
"You are my Son.
Today I have become your Father." ?????????????????????¢?? Psalm 2:7
Nor did God say of any angel,
"I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son." ?????????????????????¢?? 2 Samuel 7:14
6 And when God brings his firstborn Son into the world, he says,
"Let all God's angels worship him." ?????????????????????¢?? Psalm 97:7
7 This is what God said about the angels:
"God makes his angels become like winds.
He makes his servants become like flames of fire." ?????????????????????¢?? Psalm 104:4
8 But God said this about his Son:
"God, your throne will last forever and ever.
You will rule your kingdom with fairness.
9 You love right and hate evil,
so God has chosen you from among your friends;
he has set you apart with much joy." ?????????????????????¢?? Psalm 45:6?????????????????????¢??7
10 God also says,
"Lord, in the beginning you made the earth,
and your hands made the skies.
11 They will be destroyed, but you will remain.
They will all wear out like clothes.
12 You will fold them like a coat.
And, like clothes, you will change them.
But you never change,
and your life will never end." ?????????????????????¢?? Psalm 102:25?????????????????????¢??27
13 And God never said this to an angel:
"Sit by me at my right side
until I put your enemies under your control."[b] ?????????????????????¢?? Psalm 110:1
14 All the angels are spirits who serve God and are sent to help those who will receive salvation.
Salaams
BMZ
Posted:
Sat 06 Mar, 2010 5:12 am
BMZ Moderator
Status: Age: 75 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Post subject: Hello, Ahmed
Salaams, mate
Have you completely read the translation of Qur'aan by Free Minds? Who are these folks? Did you find the translation good?
I have been asked to comment on that translation but I do not have time to read and comment on it.
Please let me know.
BMZ
Posted:
Tue 23 Mar, 2010 5:05 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
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Post subject: Re: Hello, Ahmed
BMZ wrote:
Salaams, mate
Have you completely read the translation of Qur'aan by Free Minds? Who are these folks? Did you find the translation good?
I have been asked to comment on that translation but I do not have time to read and comment on it.
Please let me know.
BMZ
Salam dear brother
I read most of it, it is not that bad actually, but they committed fatal mistakes, in addition to that, the man who translated it "Layth" the owner of Free Minds cannot be trused because he promotes that Hajj should be to Jerusalem, for him those who do Hajj in Meccah are idol worshippers, so I have to dismiss him along with his translation, that wont stop me though from supporting anything right he says or anyone for that matter
And possibly that is why I have to dismiss his trnalsation because it have to serve it purpose through what he wrongly promotes about Islam
He will never hate hadith as much as I do, yet I did not deny the practical sunnah that we inherited, he seems to deny it
Status: Age: 75 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Jun 12, 2007
Posts: 614
Post subject: Re: Hello, Ahmed
AhmedBahgat wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Salaams, mate
Have you completely read the translation of Qur'aan by Free Minds? Who are these folks? Did you find the translation good?
I have been asked to comment on that translation but I do not have time to read and comment on it.
Please let me know.
BMZ
Salam dear brother
I read most of it, it is not that bad actually, but they committed fatal mistakes, in addition to that, the man who translated it "Layth" the owner of Free Minds cannot be trused because he promotes that Hajj should be to Jerusalem, for him those who do Hajj in Meccah are idol worshippers, so I have to dismiss him along with his translation, that wont stop me though from supporting anything right he says or anyone for that matter
And possibly that is why I have to dismiss his trnalsation because it have to serve it purpose through what he wrongly promotes about Islam
He will never hate hadith as much as I do, yet I did not deny the practical sunnah that we inherited, he seems to deny it
Salam mate
Thank you, Ahmed for the heads up.
I will read later and see how good that translation is.
Take care, mate
Salaams
BMZ
Posted:
Wed 24 Mar, 2010 4:12 pm
BMZ Moderator
Status: Age: 75 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Post subject: Genesis: Abraham & Sarah
Ahmed and all,
Please read Genesis 18 first and note that Sarah was an old lady:
Quote:
Genesis 18:11 (New Living Translation)
Abraham and Sarah were both very old by this time, and Sarah was long past the age of having children.
And now read Genesis 20:
Quote:
Genesis 20 (New Living Translation)
Abraham Deceives Abimelech
1 Abraham moved south to the Negev and lived for a while between Kadesh and Shur, and then he moved on to Gerar. While living there as a foreigner, 2 Abraham introduced his wife, Sarah, by saying, ?????????????????????¢??She is my sister.?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? So King Abimelech of Gerar sent for Sarah and had her brought to him at his palace.
3 But that night God came to Abimelech in a dream and told him, ?????????????????????¢??You are a dead man, for that woman you have taken is already married!?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
4 But Abimelech had not slept with her yet, so he said, ?????????????????????¢??Lord, will you destroy an innocent nation? 5 Didn?????????????????????¢??t Abraham tell me, ?????????????????????¢??She is my sister?????????????????????¢??? And she herself said, ?????????????????????¢??Yes, he is my brother.?????????????????????¢?? I acted in complete innocence! My hands are clean.?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
6 In the dream God responded, ?????????????????????¢??Yes, I know you are innocent. That?????????????????????¢??s why I kept you from sinning against me, and why I did not let you touch her. 7 Now return the woman to her husband, and he will pray for you, for he is a prophet. Then you will live. But if you don?????????????????????¢??t return her to him, you can be sure that you and all your people will die.?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
8 Abimelech got up early the next morning and quickly called all his servants together. When he told them what had happened, his men were terrified. 9 Then Abimelech called for Abraham. ?????????????????????¢??What have you done to us??????????????????????¢?????????????????????? he demanded. ?????????????????????¢??What crime have I committed that deserves treatment like this, making me and my kingdom guilty of this great sin? No one should ever do what you have done! 10 Whatever possessed you to do such a thing??????????????????????¢??????????????????????
11 Abraham replied, ?????????????????????¢??I thought, ?????????????????????¢??This is a godless place. They will want my wife and will kill me to get her.?????????????????????¢?? 12 And she really is my sister, for we both have the same father, but different mothers. And I married her. 13 When God called me to leave my father?????????????????????¢??s home and to travel from place to place, I told her, ?????????????????????¢??Do me a favor. Wherever we go, tell the people that I am your brother.?????????????????????¢???????????????????????¢??????????????????????
Looks like the king was a 300 hundred years old man, who went crazy for an old lady.
Salaams
BMZ
Posted:
Thu 25 Mar, 2010 6:13 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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Post subject:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Sure, this was written under SOME divine inspiration.
Posted:
Sat 27 Mar, 2010 12:22 am
BMZ Moderator
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Post subject: To Muslim friends
Just for knowledge:
A Christian wrote and I quote:
Quote:
BMZ,
Muhammad thought that Christians held to a Trinity consisting of Mary. Which is not, nor has ever been, the case.
Apparently it is in the Quran
The Angel Gabriel would have known that, therefore would not have passed on the notion to Muhammad.
To put it another way, it would not be in the Quran!
My reply:
I have demolished this accusation before many times and I will do it again.
Qur'aan attacks Trinity in two verses, without mincing any words, in 4:171 and 5:73 clearly and you will notice that Mary is not at all mentioned in the following verses and I have done a simple translation myself:
4:171 "People of the Book! Do not cross the line in your religion and do not speak anything against Allah except the truth. Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, was Allah?????????????????????¢??s messenger and a fulfillment of word, He had conveyed to Mary and a soul from Him.
So believe in Allah and his messengers. Do not say, "Three"! Desist! It would be better for you. Indeed Allah is the only One God. He is too high above in glory to have a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is on earth, and Allah is enough as a Guardian."
5:73 Indeed, those people have lied, who say, "Allah is one of the three.", when there is no deity beside the One God. If they do not desist from what they say, then they will be punished severely.
Notice that the above verses are crystal clear and only talk about Trinity and condemn it. You would not even see the name of Mary in the above verses, as it is not there.
Now, we go to the false accusation that: "Muhammad thought that Christians held to a Trinity consisting of Mary. Which is not, nor has ever been, the case. apparently it is in the Quran."
This is a very silly claim made by the polemicists. Yes, the verse is in Qur'aan and here it is:
5:116 Allah said, "Jesus, son of Mary! Did you tell people, "Worship me and my mother as deities beside God?"
Jesus said, "Glory to You. Never could I have said what I had no right to say. If I had said it, you would have surely known. You are aware of all in my mind and I do not know what is in Yours. Only you know all the hidden things."
Note that here, there is NO talk of Trinity at all. You need to read the
section 5:116-119 in order to be able to understand 5:116 and this is a scenario QUESTION that Allah will ask Jesus on the Day of Judgment.
Why would the question be asked that way?
The answer is that the Catholics, the majority of Christians do pray to Mary and people back then also did.
Christianity was also not exactly the same as it is today, with 70 plus sects.
I am sure you know about "Hail Holy Queen". Even the Pope, when he was shot, prayed only to Mary, not God and not to Jesus.
PS to Muslims: Please copy and save this write up for your discussions anywhere you like.
Salaams
BMZ
Posted:
Sat 27 Mar, 2010 4:45 am
BMZ Moderator
Status: Age: 75 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Post subject: Just for knowledge:
A polemic Christian wrote:
Quote:
EXCHANGING SALAAM WITH NON-MUSLIMS
The Prophet said:
"Do not greet the Jews and the Christians with salaam." However, if they salaam first, we may reply by saying "wa alaykum" (and upon you)." (Bukhari and Muslim)
im sick of debating muslims that dont know their faith
My reply:
Why did you not ask me? I would have settled this within a few minutes.
Now, we do not need an idiotic hadith from Bukhari and Muslim. I have written here on other threads that a Hadith must be checked under the light and shade of Qur'aan.
Under the light and shade and scrutiny of Qur'aan, the above hadith quoted falls flat, just like Christianity falls flat, when its scripture is scrutinized under the Jewish Holy Scriptures and Qur'aan.
Qur'aan does not forbid greeting non-Muslims with Salaam alaikum or in Qur'aan's Arabic Salaamun Alaikum.
Here it is 28:55 and applies to Jews, Christians, pagans and other polemicists:
Quote:
واذا سمعوا اللغو اعرضوا عنه وقالوا لنا اعمالنا ولكم اعمالكم سلام عليكم لانبتغي الجاهلين
"Wa-itha samiAAoo allaghwa aAAradoo AAanhu waqaloo lana aAAmaluna walakum aAAmalukum salamun AAalaykum la nabtaghee aljahileen"
"And when they heard vain talk, they withdrew from it, saying, "Our deeds are for us and your deeds are for you: peace be on you: we do not seek the way of the ignorant.""
'They' in above, refers to Muslims.
Salaamun alaikum, same as Salaam alaikum.
BMZ
Posted:
Wed 31 Mar, 2010 4:39 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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Post subject:
That must be added to the slam dunk show, mate _________________ http://free-islam.com
Posted:
Wed 31 Mar, 2010 5:34 am
BMZ Moderator
Status: Age: 75 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Posts: 614
Post subject:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
That must be added to the slam dunk show, mate
Yes, Ahmed
Just look at the idiots. They have not even read and understood Qur'aan and bring the crap up.
Salaams
BMZ
Posted:
Wed 31 Mar, 2010 12:35 pm
BMZ Moderator
Status: Age: 75 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Post subject: Ali Sina is Christian Prince on YouTubes
This is the latest news and has been confirmed by some of my close contacts and other sources.
May be most of you here, know by now.
Salaams
BMZ
Posted:
Tue 06 Apr, 2010 2:56 pm
BMZ Moderator
Status: Age: 75 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Posts: 614
Post subject: Something new to think about
Everyone knows that I dislike Paul, the self-loathing sinner.
I have something new for all to think about and bring to the attention of polemic Christians:
"Galatians 1:7-8
If we or an angel from heaven should preach to you any message other than that which we preached to you, let him be accursed."
Another version:
"Galatians 1:8 (New International Version)
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!"
Now, please mark the time, the period and keep in mind the person who said that.
Question: Who were the people, who then stand eternally condemned?
Answer: All those people who created various Doctrines, Trinity and the Triune God because that was not preached by Paul and those with him.
Salaams
BMZ
Posted:
Sat 10 Apr, 2010 1:08 am
BMZ Moderator
Status: Age: 75 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Jun 12, 2007
Is there something called as freedom of speech in the muslim world?
Quote:
Ahmed wrote
Haven't I told you before, kid, to address me as Dad?
Well, I am sure you realized that a decent father like me cannot be the dad of a manipulated ex cows, elephants and rats worshipper teen like you, so thanks for that
Now, I am not living in a Muslim world, confused kid, I am living in a kafir world, consequently, i apply your kafir laws on you kafirs, so let me fix your confusion, what you are after is not the freedom of speech, as I appreciate the freedom of speech, what you are after is the freedom of attack, which canot be appreciated whatsoever, however it can only be merited, so you attack when you have reasons to attack.
For example: I attack the main stream Muslims because of the rubbish found on their own man made books, but you attack me because of that rubbish found in their man made books, consequently you are for me an enemy of my religion like them, and consequently both of you will have absoutely no mercy offered, and the only reply both of you will get is to shove your man made rubbish books up your filthy arses.
See, that is what I call freedom of speech.
You went on like a tonne of bricks falling on this ignorant fool, a cow worshipper.
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