AhmedBahgat
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Age: 58
Faith: Islam
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Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236
Location: Australia
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| Post subject: They said: We killed Jesus the messenger of Allah |
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Salam all
Ugly shit face of FFI raised a stupid argument while thinking that he is so smart to raise it, I actually looked at it and it was so stupid of an argument to reply to, I have dismissed him as intellect human ages ago, however he accused me that I am running away from the subject, then when I explained that I will reply when I have time, he accused me that I want to find an answer somewhere, as if I do not know the answer, the idiot does not know that since I came from London on the 17 last month that the company decided to transfer everything to London and close the branch in Sydney, the company wants to relocate me and my family to London, which came as a shock as I really do not want to go there and leave Australia, in addition, the move means destroying a lot of things that I have built in this beautiful country, including my web site, I actually started looking for a new Job as a backup in case that I decide not to live in London with my family, and I can tell you that this is a huge issue in my life and I even do not know how I am keeping with my replies to the ignorant goons in here as well the Quran translation
Anyway, Ugly shit face wants an answer, and indeed I am going to give him one that will end with a slam dunk, this is because I reply like no other Muslim, when I reply to any argument, for me it has to be a complete slam dunk, let me prove it to you
Ugly shit face raised the following argument:
| Ugly_Shit_Face wrote:
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Here's another little lying addition added to another "supposed" quote. A quote that he tries to use to confirm his contention. He uses lies about what other people said in order to attempt to confirm the point he wants to make. That is horribly despicable.
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I assume Ugly is talking about the prophet, then he brought in the following verse:
And their saying: We killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the messenger of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it was made look so to them, and indeed those who differ over him are in doubt about it; they have no knowledge of it except following the conjecture, and they killed him not for certain.
[Al Quran ; 4:157]
وَقَوْلِهِمْ إِنَّا قَتَلْنَا الْمَسِيحَ عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولَ اللّهِ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ وَمَا صَلَبُوهُ وَلَكِن شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ اخْتَلَفُواْ فِيهِ لَفِي شَكٍّ مِّنْهُ مَا لَهُم بِهِ مِنْ عِلْمٍ إِلاَّ اتِّبَاعَ الظَّنِّ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ يَقِينًا (157)
Then he brought in 15 different translations, now, let me tell you, when a kafir does that, you should all know that he does not know what the hell he is talking about, that is why he brought 15 translations while we only need 1, therefore I will dismiss all the translations he brought in, and just use the one I presented above which is by Free-Islam
Then he raised his main argument in a sort of a question:
| Ugly_Shit_Face wrote:
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The Jews thought he was a messenger from God or an apostle of God and then crucified him?
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Then he answered the question for himself:
| Ugly_Shit_Face wrote:
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That makes absolutely no sense.
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Then he somehow started talking about the perfect sense in the corrupted Gospels:
| Ugly_Shit_Face wrote:
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The Gospels make perfect sense.
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Then he started to elaborate his self answer to his stupid question above:
| Ugly_Shit_Face wrote:
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The Jews clearly never thought he was any real messenger from God. They thought he was blasphemous and demon possessed and was trying to lead them away from their religion, and THAT is why they crucified him. And the Jews will tell you the same exact thing. Nobody crucifies someone if they honestly believe that he is a prophet of God. So the Jews would have never called Jesus a prophet of God. So this was yet another tremendous blunder that Muhammad made. Muhammad, in his zeal to put words into people's mouth that they never would have said in order to make it appear that his contentions were correct, simply didn't think this little fabrication through very well. He needed so desperately to make it appear that Jesus was a prophet, but also merely the son of Mary, that he didn't even see the big fat blinking, honking, tremendous error he was making. And Muslims, in their state of Islamic hypnosis, never see this obvious error as well. I don't think Muhammad was very bright when it came to stuff like this, but apparently, he was a very good hypnotist as evidence by the hypnotized state of his followers. It's right there in front of you. Can't you see it? Look at it. Stare at it. Ignoring it does not make it go away.
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And that was his stupid argument, however as any confused and dumb kafir enemy of Islam does, he added another unrelated crap about the skies, the stars and the planet which must be dismissed to salvage whatever I can of my valued time, let me now summarize his crap in a couple of points:
Ugly says:
1) Verse 4:157 says that the Jews said that they killed Isa, the messenger of Allah
2) How come they wanted to kill him then?
Ahmed says::
Hahahahaahah, what a laugh, I feel another mother of all slams coming, let me bring the part of verse 4:157 in question:
وَقَوْلِهِمْ إِنَّا قَتَلْنَا الْمَسِيحَ عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولَ اللّهِ , And their saying: We killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the messenger of Allah; ,
Well, we have two possibilities:
1) This part: the messenger of Allah , is not part of what they said. Rather what they said ended at: We killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium,, then Allah is the One Who is saying: the messenger of Allah to highlight their huge sin in saying that they killed Isa (WHO IS) the messenger of Allah, from Allah point of view. And in this case Ugly have no point whatsoever
or
2) This part: the messenger of Allah , is part of what they said. i.e. they said: We killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the messenger of Allah;
Now I do not agree that They, is referring explicitly to the Jews, it can be referring to any group(s) because it is Damir Absent, anyway, and for argument sake, I will accept for now that They is referring to the Jews.
Well, I can not see anything contradictory by them saying that they killed the messenger of Allah. IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT ANY HUMAN WHO ACCEPTS ANY LAW THAT HE?SHE WILL ABIDE BY IT and the law in here as Ugly is assuming is that, respecting the messengers of Allah is a must
Well, but we also have a couple of possibilities to what their sayings of killing the messenger of Allah means:
1) They said it as a boast of their fearlessness, it is like when I bash a big guy then I humiliate him while he is on the floor and say to him: Stand up BIG GUY, obviously under such possibility; they really do not believe that Isa was the messenger of Allah.. The goons do this quite often on FFI when they talk about Allah or Mohammed, they call the first Allah (His unique title) and they call the second the messenger of Allah. yet they disrespect both
2) The said it while being aware that he may be indeed the messenger of Allah, but again, this should not stop them from harming him, it seems it was in the blood of the Jews, the prophets killers, let me show you an example of what they did to Moses while knowing that he was the messenger of Allah:
5: And when Musa said to his people: O my people! Why do you harm me? And you know that indeed, I am the messenger of Allah to you; but when they turned aside, Allah made their hearts turn aside, and Allah does not guide the transgressing people.
6: And when Isa son of Marium said: O children of Israel! Indeed, I am the messenger of Allah to you, verifying that which is before me of the Taurat and giving the good news of a messenger who will come after me, his name being Ahmed, but when he came to them with clear arguments they said: This is clear magic.
[The Quran ; 61:5-6]
وَإِذْ قَالَ مُوسَىٰ لِقَوْمِهِ يَا قَوْمِ لِمَ تُؤْذُونَنِي وَقَدْ تَعْلَمُونَ أَنِّي رَسُولُ اللَّهِ إِلَيْكُمْ ۖ فَلَمَّا زَاغُوا أَزَاغَ اللَّهُ قُلُوبَهُمْ ۚ وَاللَّهُ لَا يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الْفَاسِقِينَ (5)
وَإِذْ قَالَ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ يَا بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ إِنِّي رَسُولُ اللَّهِ إِلَيْكُمْ مُصَدِّقًا لِمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيَّ مِنَ التَّوْرَاةِ وَمُبَشِّرًا بِرَسُولٍ يَأْتِي مِنْ بَعْدِي اسْمُهُ أَحْمَدُ ۖ فَلَمَّا جَاءَهُمْ بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ قَالُوا هَٰذَا سِحْرٌ مُبِينٌ (6)
-> See, what Moses said to his people: And when Musa said to his people: O my people! Why do you harm me? And you know that indeed, I am the messenger of Allah to you; hahahahahaha, what a verse leading to another mother of all slams, see, the Jews knew that Moses was the messenger of Allah yet they continued to harm him which made Moses to ask them, WHY THEY DO THAT WHILE THEY KNOW THAT HE IS THE MESSNEGER OF ALLAH TO THEM
Jesus too, informed the Jews that he is a messenger of Allah, straight in the next verse:
-> See: And when Isa son of Marium said: O children of Israel! Indeed, I am the messenger of Allah to you,, therefore the Jews already knew that Isa claimed to be the messenger of Allah, therefore it is either they were mocking him by adding such phrase the messenger of Allahwhen they said that they killed him (as I explained earlier). Or they indeed believed that he was the messenger of Allah but they were nothihg but a bunch of hypocrites who are lying to themselves and other, let me show you a perfect example:
When the hypocrites come to you, they say: We bear witness that you are most surely the messenger of Allah; and Allah knows that you are most surely His messenger, and Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are indeed liars.
[The Quran ; 63:1]
إِذَا جَاءَكَ الْمُنَافِقُونَ قَالُوا نَشْهَدُ إِنَّكَ لَرَسُولُ اللَّهِ ۗ وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ إِنَّكَ لَرَسُولُهُ وَاللَّهُ يَشْهَدُ إِنَّ الْمُنَافِقِينَ لَكَاذِبُونَ (1)
-> See what the hypocrites used to say to Mohammed: When the hypocrites come to you, they say: We bear witness that you are most surely the messenger of Allah , They said that they bear witness that Mohammed is the messenger of Allah YET THEY WERE CALLED HYPOCRITES and indeed later in the verse they are called liars: and Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are indeed liars
Here you have it boys and girls, I tackled all possibilities and proved that there is no contradiction whatsoever, as well I have proven the stupidity of Ugly Shit Face and his lack of analytical skills
One more thing left:
Salam |
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